Thursday, December 01, 2011
A chat session with a skeptic (slightly edited for clarity). It began before this as a political discussion, but where it went from there is interesting.
Why not? We have been lied to since the beginning of time :)
wait till you see what's in store for us in the next 20 yrs
I'm not expecting history to end pleasantly - anyone who reads the Bible knows that, but I think people will act "rationally" right up to the end
why is the bible the only religious book that's accurate?
why are all the others wrong?
well, I believe that it is accurate, and any others are accurate at least as much as they agree with it
if they disagree, then I know which one I think is correct
maybe we're all praying to the same god with a different interpretation
me personally even though I'm a christian, I'm more impressed with the Dali Lama than any other top religious leader
Krishna = Allah = Jesus = Confuscious = ...?
strong in mind body and spirit
with much conviction
do you really believe that they're all the same?
or were they all made up by a man?
Myself: well, if one man told a story 2600 years ago about another man who was going to die and rise from the dead to save his people, how did he know that 600 years later it would happen?
and how did the story not get twisted?
and how do we know that it didn't?
because we have texts from before the events that say the same thing as they say now
maybe they put them in a washer and dryer many times so they look old
and how do they know the earth is 4million years old
wheres noah's arc?
the Jewish Bible has the story told 2600 years ago - why would they have twisted it if they don't believe in Jesus?
shouldn't we have found animal carcasses?
why do jews believe the messiah hasn't come yet?
because they don't believe that Jesus fulfilled all of the promises
and why would they be god's people if they don't believe he has come yet
doesn't that show the ultimate form of historical ignorance by his "chosen people"
what about me? why am I not chosen?
as you can see I have a lot of questions :)
why should you be chosen? Do you want to be?
if I was confirmed and convicted maybe I'd die for these sacks of trash that forsaked me too
anyway I'm going to sign up to help "people"
it looks to me like you've set up all kinds of barriers against being convicted - that every evidence that might point that way is a human invention and every evidence that points against it is gospel truth
so I really don't expect that you ever will be
that's you're opinion and you're entitled to it
but at the same time I've been told that if I have ever been saved then I am always saved
so does that mean that I can do whatever I want now?
saved people are saved from their sin, not saved to sin with abandon
so what's worse, sin against myself or sin against others?
or are they the same
all sin alienates us from God, some sin also does damage to our neighbors
what if I treated everyone like god's chosen children but sinned against myself
am I going to hell for that?
but sin is still sin
define "sin against yourself" - what do you mean by that?
I'm sure you can think of some
how about suicide
drug and alcohol addiction
doing things in general to hurt your chances at this life
ok - all of those have the common effect of making it difficult or impossible for you to use your life to glorify God or bless your neighbor.
so they are sins against both
they demand that I get to do what I want with myself and have no responsibility to others
which is the essence of sin
there are extenuating circumstances, granted
and God may forgive these too
on what terms?
is this a case by case basis?
how does he have time for that?
the same terms as He forgives all sins - with the blood of Jesus for someone who recognizes their need for it
God is omniscient and eternal - he has all the time he needs to deal with each of us individually
it all sounds glorious
but is it real?
in your opinion
I'm not alone in that opinion
there are 2 billion muslims that think the same thing of their religion too
more Christians than that
I heard there were only 1 billion christians in the world
see here: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html - 2 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims
but majority vote doesn't prove things - all I'm saying is that if you think I'm a fool (which I may be), there are a lot more like me who are fools
never said you were a fool
I respect your beliefs
well, if I'm giving my money and my time away spending it on the hope of a future which is all wishful thinking, then I'd say that I'm a fool
why should I not spend it on my own pleasures instead?
I know there is something there
I can feel it
and for which some of MY Christian friends think that I am a fool
I have to read the word to understand or know it
I can't feel it
thats too hard for them to grasp
so you're sure that something is "there" - that you can feel it?
the true fools are the ones that can't make that distinction
all of this universe
the galaxy the solar system
the sun the moon the planets
the rock were on
and we are the only things that are here
gimme a break
my deeply religious friend told me the human was much more impressive than all of that
I vehemently disagree with that compared to the rest of whats out there
we are a mere biproduct
like a Mozart or Beethoven symphony across the stars
so the big bang exploded and left behind Mozart or Beethoven...
I agree that the things that you describe are amazing, but I don't attribute that to the big bang by itself
I think they are evidence of God's shaping hand on the universe
never said they weren't
I'm talking about what's out there
and here we are on this tiny little rock in one solar system
that's been around as long as a "vapor" according to the bible
and somehow we have aquired this divinity?
well, it wasn't by our doing, that's for sure
but evanescence doesn't say anything about our value
you can have two pieces of paper
one wrapped around a tube in the bathroom
one with the picture of a president on it with $10,000 in the corners
not equally valuable
we are dust, but dust with value
because we've been imprinted with a picture of God
I hope your right
but I still find it hard to believe
absolutely - it's the height of vanity to believe this if it's not true
I'm not that attractive
of course not - neither am I
money gets torn and damaged too - but remains valuable
and (as you well know from your Christian experience) Jesus died to make us clean again
so it's not up to us
good conversation my friend
yes - I very much enjoy talking about this kind of stuff